My interview with John C. Skipper,
author of "Meredith Willson: The Unsinkable Music Man"
by Site Host, Eric Endres
Press Release for the Book
Ordering Information
EE: Given your previous experience writing about baseball, and the way Ted
Savas sort of `roped' you into writing this book, as described in his
prologue, were there any reservations on your part? Or did you view it as a
challenge, or a nice change of pace?
JCS: When Ted Savas approached me about the Meredith Willson project, I was
in the process of finishing one baseball book, An Encyclopedia of Baseball
Managers, and was awaiting page proofs on another baseball book, Take Me Out
to the Cubs Game. So part of my reluctance simply had to do with the fact
that I had two books in the works and didn't know whether I wanted to be
working on three at one time. The intriguing thing about it, though, was
that I had been looking for a project other than a baseball book because I
don't consider myself a baseball writer. I am an author and a researcher
who has had some success writing about baseball. But I really wanted to try
my hand at something else. That was probably the deciding factor in
agreeing to do Meredith Willson: The Unsinkable Music Man.
EE: Living in Mason City, the shadow of Meredith Willson must loom large.
How much did you know about him prior to researching and writing his life
story?
JCS: How much do any of us really know about people we think we know well?
I knew the basic Meredith Willson story from the "hometown boy makes good"
standpoint. Not long into my research, I discovered that he was a
fascinating man from a fascinating family. From that point on, the
challenge was to present this story effectively to readers well beyond the
city limits of Mason City.
EE: In addition to the vast Willson archives available to you, you mention
getting a lot of valuable material from recollections of local residents who
knew Meredith. Was there any conflicting information or stories that seemed
more mythical than factual that you had to discard, as interesting as they
may have been?
JCS: I spent weeks combing the archives, putting a timeline together on
Willson's life, and came up with many interesting anecdotes in the process.
But that was just skin and bones. I needed some "red corpusles", as an
author friend of mine used to say, to put some life into the story. This
presented another challenge, since Willson died 16 years ago and most of his
Mason City friends died long before that. I knew that he was buried in
Mason City. I went back to the files and found the names of his
pallbearers, many of whom are still alive. I figured that if they were
chosen as pallbearers, they must have known him pretty well. As it turned
out, I was right. They not only provided lively, interesting stories, but
gave me names of other people I should call. So I was off and running.
As for conflicting information, I relate this story. One of the people I
contacted, an elderly man, told me a fascinating story about Willson's
sister, Dixie - a story I had never heard before and I was sure had never
been published before. I used the story in the first draft of the book but
used no attribution because I was certain that what I had written was fact.
When I gave a draft of my book to the old man to read and edit, he came to
the passage about Dixie, circled it and wrote, "that's really interesting.
Where did you find that out?" Of course, he was the source of the story.
But I never used it in the book because I naturally questioned its accuracy.
EE: Meredith Willson left home for New York City when he was 17 years old,
and aside from his frequent visits back to Mason City, he generally resided
elsewhere. What do you think it was about Mason City that had such a
profound effect on him as to continue to inspire, for the rest of his life,
references to it throughout his radio career and in "The Music Man."
JCS: Willson never lost the simple, midwest values that he learned growing
up in Mason City - the kindness, the honesty and yes, the stubbornness of its
people, and one person in particular, his mother, Rosalie Willson. Meredith
enjoyed all the razzle-dazzle of Hollywood and he learned how to make a good
living in that environment, but it was never, ever "home."
EE: As you span over the course of his life, one gets the sense of Willson's
life and accomplishments building up to, and perhaps even preparing him for
"The Music Man", and skyrocketing from there. As you studied and wrote about
his life, were there any crucial times or events that could have changed his
path in a significantly different direction, or moments that really defined
who he became and what he accomplished?
JCS: There are a whole series of movements that "define" Meredith Willson,
beginning when he left home as a teen-ager, took a train 1,000 miles from
Iowa to New York and landed a job in John Phillip Sousa's band. He never
gave failure a thought in anything he did. So he played for Sousa and
Toscanini, worked with Lee deForest on his experiments with sound for motion
pictures, wrote the music for Charlie Chaplin's first talkie, and hob-knobbed
with the biggest and brightest stars in Hollywood in a 20-year radio career.
When he did fail, he laughed it off and even wrote a book called, "Eggs I
Have Laid." Willson had too many ideas, too many projects in mind, too many
people who wanted his time and talent, to worry about failing.
Willson auditioned for the role of master of ceremonies of a TV quiz show in
New York in the early 1950s. He was told the audition was a formality, that
the job was his. But he bombed in the audition and went back to California
to continue to work on a play he was writing. The play turned out to be
"The Music Man." Had he succeeded in the quiz show audition, "The Music
Man" might never have been written. So that qualifies as an event that
could have changed his life significantly. I know it would have changed the
focus of this book!
EE: The book mentions that he felt disappointed that "The Unsinkable Molly
Brown" wasn't as successful as "The Music Man." Was there any sense that he
thought of "The Music Man" as a looming giant that he couldn't live up to
again? Did he ever express agreement with the critics that his later works
were inferior to "The Music Man", or frustration that they would always be
unfairly measured against that?
JCS: Willson's disappointment that "Molly Brown" wasn't as successful as
"The Music Man" may be evidence of his eternal optimism about everything he
did - and also, the passion he had for his work. Remember, he only wrote
the music for "Molly Brown" - not the entire work like he did for "The Music
Man." Critics measured everything he did against "The Music Man." I doubt
if Willson did because he had a great ability to move completely onto the
next project and make the new one as good as it could be on its own merits,
without comparing it to anything else.
EE: Do you see Meredith Willson's influence, or a glimpse of what he might
have been today, in musical late-night characters like Paul Schaefer, Max
Weinberg or Doc Severinson?
JCS: Absolutely. Willson perfected the role of musician-announcer-stooge on
radio - and took a big risk that he might be compromising his reputation as
a musician. As it turned out, this was just another area in which Willson
was a pioneer.
EE: As cheerful a person as Willson was, he really had some difficult family
circumstances, including the bitter divorce of his parents, the estrangement
and hostility of his sister, the dissolution of his first marriage and the
death of his second wife, Rini. Many people would channel some of these
events into their music or become bitter because of them. But Willson
remained resolutely positive, both in his art and in his life. How did he
maintain his good attitude?
JCS: Willson was always a man of purpose and he had the resolve not to let
even the most difficult family matters change that resolve. It wasn't that
he didn't consider his family important. He did. His mother was an
inspiration to him for his entire life, and he had a special love that he
expressed often for his second wife, Rini, who died of cancer, and his third
wife, Rosemary, both of whom, I think, understood the importance he placed
on purpose and resolve. Not much is known about his first marriage and why
it failed, but we may gain insight just by looking at why his next two
marriages succeeded.
EE: Willson had a remarkable diversity, being involved in several different
entertainment mediums - marching bands, orchestras, radio, film, literature,
television, theater. Once he got into theater, that seemed to captivate him
thereafter, but was there anything else that he longed to do but never did -
art, film making, etc?
JCS: Why did theater captivate Willson? Because that's where he achieved
his biggest success and where the biggest potential was for future success.
Remember, when he first contacted Kermit Bloomgarden, producer of "The
Music Man," Bloomgarden's reaction was "Who the hell is Meredith Willson?"
It had been a long time since his successful radio career. Once "The Music
Man" hit it big, nobody ever asked that question again. Willson would have
enjoyed being a television personality - but I don't think he longed for
anything. He was just too busy for that.
EE: I agree with the assessment of some reviewers that Meredith Willson
is the real star of "The Music Man". Knowing what you know about his life,
are there glimpses of his character in the show that you wouldn't have seen before?
JCS: I mentioned earlier Willson's sense of purpose and his resolve to see
it through. The same characteristics can be seen in Professor Harold Hill
and in Marian the Librarian, the main characters in "The Music Man" and in
characters in most of his other works.
Many thanks to John C. Skipper, and Ted Savas of Savas Publishing, for granting this interview, and for creating this great biography of a remarkable music man!
PRESS RELEASE
Meredith Willson marched into the hearts of American music lovers with
productions like The Music Man and The Unsinkable Molly Brown,
and unforgettable show tunes like "Seventy-Six Trombones."
Indeed, Willson’s life is an American classic.
The Mason City native left home for New York
and fame and fortune aboard a train
with only a few dollars in his pocket
and a bent piccolo in his travel bag.
He returned as one of the most famous stars of his era.
Many people think his career began and ended with The Music Man.
Did you know that Willson . . .
* Played flute and piccolo in the John Philip Sousa band?
* Helped scientist Lee deForest develop an invention
that led to sound for motion pictures?
* Wrote music for Charlie Chaplin's first "talkie" movie?
* Wrote and recorded several number one songs,
and another was recorded by the Beatles?
* Was the youngest conductor of the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra?
* Won the first Grammy award ever presented?
Meredith Willson: The Unsinkable Music Man tells his life’s story,
from his childhood on Superior (today’s Pennsylvania) Avenue,
through his radio and television days,
Broadway successes (and failures), and three marriages.
It is the amazing story of how the youngster with talent and tenacity,
mindful of his father’s challenge to be a pioneer
and possessed with what he would later call a streak of "Iowa stubborn"
rose to become one of America's most famous and endearing musicians.
It is a tale you will never forget.
The first book on Mason City’s legendary Music Man. Contains dozens of
photos, preface, prologue, appendices, index. 240pp., ISBN: 1-882810-78-3
Author John C. Skipper is a newspaper journalist whose 35-year career
has produced thousands of newspaper columns and five books.
He is available to talk to your group, and welcomes inquiries (424-3428).
John and his wife Sandi live in Mason City, Iowa.
They have three grown daughters and one grandchild.
Savas Publishing Company
P.O. Box 4527
El Dorado Hills, CA 95762
916-941-6896
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